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Author Topic: Upside down orgrimmar!?!?  (Read 2705 times)

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Offline Gavelin

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Upside down orgrimmar!?!?
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2005, 10:00:46 pm »
Quote from: Mayner
Nurfed ? Gypsy's?


No, damn it can't remember the name of it now >_<

I'm gonna look it up. :P

Offline Critt

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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2005, 10:39:04 pm »
I use a combination of Gypsy and Cosmos..it owns.

Offline Khastity

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« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2005, 10:42:52 pm »
Quote from: Aegd
I dont get it with cosmos and extra lag, never noticed a difference =p


I played on Warsong which had allot of lag in the first place not to mention 450+ queus to get into the server every night....Cosmos would lag the game down extra hard...when I unloaded cosmos and went to Flexbar I noticed about 25% reduction in the lag in IF and AH...there are certain Addons when combined with Cosmos that are known to cause lagg as well ....Such as Quest Minion...that is a known issue or at least was a couple months ago. Another obvious one is if you use the Thotbot Upload feature so that Thotbot can update its database of the game...If you do that on Full it really lags but there should never be a reaon really to do that ...There were a couple other addons that have ben mention that seem to cause Cosmos to increase the lagg in some peoples systems...Here again I was playing on a Heavily Populated server that definately had certain Times where lag was just insane...and in those conditions people that ran Cosmos oftn complianed of an increase in the usual lag..I suspect on servers not laggin as much that cosmos probally if completely fine...:D

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Offline Spizmack

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« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2005, 04:53:01 am »
If you were lagging at the AHs it's your comp, not real lag. Cosmos adds more variables and more things to be seen on screen, so it adds more comp lag. Upgrade your RAM and you should have no problem at all.

Offline Khastity

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« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2005, 04:56:43 am »
Quote from: Spizmack
Cosmos adds more variables and more things to be seen on screen, so it adds more comp lag.


I have 1 gig of ram running a P4 1.6 ghz comp....Okay so the Chipset is a bit slow ...opps but the issues I posted about are REAL issues that many people have posted about on the Cosmos site as well as the WOW forums. Such variables and FUNCTIONS do lag Client side performance hence my argument to get rid of Cosmos if you are in an environment that is overpopulated and hence my argument to use flexbar which does little to lag the comp...I am not an expert nor claim to be but as I said it lagged the hell out of me (about 25% differnece before and after)and made game play less enjoyable..at least on Warsong which is a severely over populated server.

It also is an issue of compounding Cosmos interface with the attached Add-on that cosmos comes with such as Quest Minion, and the thotbot options there are others that have been implicated on the Wow forums when used in conjunction with Cosmos...the cosmos devs have been very mum on the issues regarding  increased lag. LAG is LAG if I slow down whether server side or Client side it is stil lag....Cosmos = Increase Client side lag by your quote above. So it still screws my game play ...

As to the issue of Why in Hell Blizzard would allow a server to get so overpopulated as Warsong I cannot fathom but I basically left because of 450+ quese nightly getting into the game on warsong....would basically amount to about 30-35 minute wait time ..Nightly.. then lets talk about Server Roll backs...On 2 seperate occaisions....I had lewt eliminated from my inventory due to server Roll backs. Each time I petition ...I get a absolutely no response from any one in game because Blizzard went to an all E-mail response system to petitions, which basically amount to...

"Thanks you for bringing this matter to our atention. Rest assured we have looked into the matter and are doing every thing possible to rectify it. Please do not respond to this e-mail"

in short

Blizzard = LAg  and SUCkS at Customer service and

Cosmos = Lag

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Offline Hardpipe

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Upside down orgrimmar!?!?
« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2005, 09:42:38 am »
Quote from: Spizmack
If you were lagging at the AHs it's your comp, not real lag. Cosmos adds more variables and more things to be seen on screen, so it adds more comp lag. Upgrade your RAM and you should have no problem at all.


lol...the loading of items on the AH is ALL server, they've adressed it.  Sprites is a different thing though
Still groping for blood alcohol poisoning...

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Offline Smalldyer

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« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2005, 09:52:39 am »
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gnomes are the best dancers in the game :D

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Smalldyer, is it just a coincidence that your WoW name spelled backwards is Iranswar (Iran's war) or are you a terrorist?


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Die!

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Offline Spizmack

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« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2005, 07:04:21 pm »
Quote from: Hardpipe
Quote from: Spizmack
If you were lagging at the AHs it's your comp, not real lag. Cosmos adds more variables and more things to be seen on screen, so it adds more comp lag. Upgrade your RAM and you should have no problem at all.


lol...the loading of items on the AH is ALL server, they've adressed it.  Sprites is a different thing though


Had 512 mem and lagged at the AHs. Put in another stick and volia! the lag is gone. But I guess you're right  :roll:

Offline Khastity

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« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2005, 08:15:52 pm »
Quote from: Spizmack
Quote from: Hardpipe
Quote from: Spizmack
Had 512 mem and lagged at the AHs. Put in another stick and volia! the lag is gone. But I guess you're right  :roll:



I still lag at AH with 1 Gig of DDR ram...so know they haven't completely addressed the issue...

and it  also doesn't explain the constant server rollbacks I experienced on the warsong server. In one hour on just 1 day there 5 rollbacks. Made it completely unplaybale. And we aren't talking right after release we are talking Late January 2005...on a weekday afternoon when the Server population was at moderate....

WOW still = Lag, Roll Backs (that cause loss of lewt, armour and Weapons)
and Bad Customer service (oh not to mention the loss of a complete character when Crossing ocean From Menethril to the other continent one day)

Cosmos still  = LAG

Anyway I found Flexbar to be more flexible for me and had no increase in lag, which is where this conversation I believe started.

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Offline Dube

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« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2005, 08:16:58 pm »
dammit im getting sucked in, i must stop reading all this wow stuff. on a serious note coming back to these forums is beginning to make me resort back to my immature dube self. lol i miss all this stuff.
Death Before Dishonour
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Kill'em all let God sort'em out
Id rather die on the battlefield than live on my knees
You can run but you'll only die tired.
Forgivness is Gods Job I just arrange the meetings.

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Offline Critt

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« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2005, 10:47:48 pm »
Quote from: Dube
dammit im getting sucked in, i must stop reading all this wow stuff. on a serious note coming back to these forums is beginning to make me resort back to my immature dube self. lol i miss all this stuff.

:)

Offline Hardpipe

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« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2005, 07:39:04 am »
Quote from: Spizmack
you're right


I know
Still groping for blood alcohol poisoning...

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Offline Acaret

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« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2005, 10:09:20 am »
Bant you are the same gimp as always ... you got an overpowered char ( shammy ) so you can kill every1 :P

You couldn't kill me an AO ... and you get your revenge in WoW :)

Offline Ntwitt

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« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2005, 12:05:59 pm »
com3 back to AO !!


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Offline Smalldyer

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« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2005, 01:35:07 pm »
Quote from: Acaret
Bant you are the same gimp as always ... you got an overpowered char ( shammy ) so you can kill every1 :P

You couldn't kill me an AO ... and you get your revenge in WoW :)


I eat shamans for breakfast.

Offline Drmarkgreen

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« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2005, 12:36:14 am »
The Plural of Shaman is Shaman ;)

and yes, as an alliance player on Bleeding Hollow (42 mage), I have to say that shammys are overpowered... earth shock interrupts all spell casting and it has virtually no cooldown (6 seconds which in conjunction with the 2 second lock + lag, could technically render a mage unable to attack == over powered). Frost shock is a high dps..once again low cooldown (6 sec) with a frost effect that rivals that of the mage's frostbolt. Frost shock has a 50% reduction, frostbolt has a 60% but low dps.

Now, shaman have more than capable melee ability + temp 'enhancements' to make them exceptional soloers both in melee and magic-ranged combat. Not the case with the hunter who is really only adept in ranged combat with melee as an emergency means of dmg (i.e. pet dies).

On top of their mage-rivaling frost shock and bane of mage earthshock + capable melee dmg, they also can drop 'totems'. Yeah they die in one hit but often in 1v1 you don't have the time or in my case mana to waste on attacking a totem. So only is that argument feasible if you're talking about group pvp where someone can hit the totem while you fight the shaman.

When you thought even that was enough, they can heal with the efficiency similar to paladins (though some argue that it's more like a druid.. not sure which is true since i dont play horde too often) AND they can resurrect.

The shaman have no real weakness which is another reason in my opinion that they are substantially overpowered. A well timed counter spell will not render them useless like it would to  a caster class, because they can dish out the dmg in melee for the 10(4) seconds that CS lasts. Or, if they are fighting a warrior or paladin or rogue (who generally should have better melee capability), they can just kite with frost shock and use their direct dmg nukes.

Solution without gimping shammys: is giving frost shock and earthshock a 15-20 second cooldown. That way, one cannot spam the slowing effect or repeatedly interrupt casting of a mage/caster class.

This would slightly nerf their mana abilities without affecting their melee or support  purpose (totems). however deep down i will always resent them because they have are quasi-adept at every class' ability.
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Offline Aegd

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« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2005, 09:02:48 am »
bloodscale , 70%  horde, 60% shamans, not kidding =p
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Offline shaitan00

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« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2005, 01:38:49 pm »
As the usual anti-nerf counter I'll say: Don't nerf anything, improve the weak instead!
But crying nerf on Shamen? Why not start with shadow priests, not that it makes much sense for me to promote nerfing them since I play one myself. I beat pretty much anyone my own lvl hands down (41 atm), even shamens.
I haven't had any 1 vs 1 encounters with palladins, who I could imgagine could actually put up a good fight... I dunno though :)
So could the reason for you picking on the shamen be that it woulden't make the alliance side(your side) weaker, instead of nerfing a far more "overpowered" class like the priest which would in fact harm both sides? ;)
The shamen is a strong class for sure, but everyone can be beaten you just gotta find out how. And counting duels as a means to test pvp balance is a bad idea imo, you gotta figure how classes perform in the open, in mass pvp. Duels are worth shit.
And in that context, if you get the jump on someone you will have a mayor advantage always. It's a deciding factor who engages who, a Mage would own a shamen in the open if he got the jump on him, same as the shamen would own the mage if the roles were reversed (I'm talking two equally skilled, equally equipped players who'd use their skill-set optimally).

Offline Bantram

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« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2005, 07:29:19 pm »
Quote from: Drmarkgreen
The Plural of Shaman is Shaman ;)

and yes, as an alliance player on Bleeding Hollow (42 mage), I have to say that shammys are overpowered... earth shock interrupts all spell casting and it has virtually no cooldown (6 seconds which in conjunction with the 2 second lock + lag, could technically render a mage unable to attack == over powered). Frost shock is a high dps..once again low cooldown (6 sec) with a frost effect that rivals that of the mage's frostbolt. Frost shock has a 50% reduction, frostbolt has a 60% but low dps.

Now, shaman have more than capable melee ability + temp 'enhancements' to make them exceptional soloers both in melee and magic-ranged combat. Not the case with the hunter who is really only adept in ranged combat with melee as an emergency means of dmg (i.e. pet dies).

On top of their mage-rivaling frost shock and bane of mage earthshock + capable melee dmg, they also can drop 'totems'. Yeah they die in one hit but often in 1v1 you don't have the time or in my case mana to waste on attacking a totem. So only is that argument feasible if you're talking about group pvp where someone can hit the totem while you fight the shaman.

When you thought even that was enough, they can heal with the efficiency similar to paladins (though some argue that it's more like a druid.. not sure which is true since i dont play horde too often) AND they can resurrect.

The shaman have no real weakness which is another reason in my opinion that they are substantially overpowered. A well timed counter spell will not render them useless like it would to  a caster class, because they can dish out the dmg in melee for the 10(4) seconds that CS lasts. Or, if they are fighting a warrior or paladin or rogue (who generally should have better melee capability), they can just kite with frost shock and use their direct dmg nukes.

Solution without gimping shammys: is giving frost shock and earthshock a 15-20 second cooldown. That way, one cannot spam the slowing effect or repeatedly interrupt casting of a mage/caster class.

This would slightly nerf their mana abilities without affecting their melee or support  purpose (totems). however deep down i will always resent them because they have are quasi-adept at every class' ability.


First off I admit i'm massively overpowered.  I can take out any class that tries to kill me solo anywhere close to me in levels (including gimpy noob mages)

However, earth shock and frost shock do not have fast cooldowns.  6 seconds per cast is quite slow :p  Frost shock is lower DPS than Earth shock (at most levels), lightning bolt is highest DPS since it can be casted every 3 seconds, but nobody uses it in pvp cuz it has a 3 second cast time :p

Shaman healing efficiency is very bad :p  our heals aren't very good and are almost completely useless vs. a melee :p  Our heals are akin to the MA heals before the new SL heals were added for us.

15-20 second cooldown is insane for earth/frost shock :p they are our only compentent PvM spells so I'll disagree that the need nerfed.  I think a better nerf for those spells would be a 50% chance for earth shock to stop spell casting and a 4 second slow instead of 8 seconds (i think it is 8 seconds now)

I know i'll be nerfed, I recognize my power, but I just wanted to clarify a few things.  People make shamans look like invincible gods when we are in all actuality simply slightly overpowered :-)
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Offline Critt

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« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2005, 10:52:25 pm »
in the end, the gimpest class (with the division of pvp, group pvp, and high end instances) is rogue, second hunter. Before I said warriors were gimpy..but I was way wrong, at 60 they are very good and useful in instances alike, and group pvp they're pretty badass.

The only thing that is overpowered right now is frostshock, and the druids root.

Offline Drmarkgreen

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« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2005, 01:18:48 am »
Quote from: Critt
in the end, the gimpest class (with the division of pvp, group pvp, and high end instances) is rogue, second hunter. Before I said warriors were gimpy..but I was way wrong, at 60 they are very good and useful in instances alike, and group pvp they're pretty badass.

The only thing that is overpowered right now is frostshock, and the druids root.


I agree that Rogues need a little bit of tweaking, but the problem is...they are balanced yet they are not balanced. They are balanced because they have very high potential damage output in a relatively fast amount of time but several means of countering their attacks and defeating them. Because rogues are so balanced, they need tweaking. Same goes for Warrior. Warrior is so balanced that it is gimpy. Though like you said, at level 60, warriors go from crappy to uber because they get new equipment where the other classes don't get much at all. Melee classes in general are crappy in PvP but that is because there are so many casters. It's like a bunch of enforcers without rage trying to kill a nano technician with GSF. Melee just can't get to their targets and pallys got  lots of daze attack.

I also agree that frost shock and druid root are two things worth whining about. I could be satisfied if earth shock was left alone for now but as it stands, Frost shock is pretty much the only tactic of Shaman Pvpers. They spam the spell and unlike my frost bolt (though im frost specced so it does slow longer), the target will be slowed for teh entire duration of the cooldown. I forgot to mention the shaman have a 40%+/- [correct me if I'm wrong here] temp form so not only can they spam slowing spells, but they can also catch up and unless you have a mount (obsolete when you enter combat) you will never be able to get away.

Druid root is a tough thing to argue over. Druids are pretty crappy as it is and a spammable root is always imbalancing in a PvP game like this. However from my understanding, they cannot use the root indoors. Which at the high-end game means they're next to useless. Most druids I've encountered stay in caster form and spam moonfire ... only when I'm running from a group and get chain rooted even with blink, will I gripe about their root.

Shadow priests. Up until I respecced frost, I could not defeat a shadow priest for several reasons. One, I'm not undead with my uberleet WotF button which basically says "DENIED" to any warlock or priest who fears + DoT's you which is usually what happens to me. But since I specced frost, I  gained a very valuable tool called Ice block. This freezes me in ice, renders me attackless but makes me immune to all damage, removes all harmful spells on me and it mimics the paladins divine shield with the potential to have instant cooldown and longer duration. I haven't tried icce block when feared...not sure it would work but if it did, then there< i can easily beat a warlock or priest. I could use iceblock two times if i utilize cold snap as well (ends all cooldown on frost spells).

But that is just my toolset.

Back to the shaman thing. I didn't say that your heals were good, I compared them to somewhere between pally and druids in efficiency. Druids heals blow...they are all HoT and this game is not an 'over time' friendly pvp game. Low health and no shadowbreeds and other retarded tools make a 1v1 match very quick.

The reason you say 15-20 sec is insane is because you're so used to spamming it. Most of my frost abilities are 15-20 sec and yeah it sounds like a long time but when you're in game it doesn't seem to long. Cone of Cold, Frost Nova... all high recycle times. Plus, doing this would force Shaman to use Lightning Shock (which I wouldn';t mind not being given a high cooldown).

Finally, you're proposal of a 50% chance of ES to stop spell casting.. I'd settle to 40% and 3 second slow timer. Lag plays a big part in this game.
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Offline madcow

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Upside down orgrimmar!?!?
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2005, 01:50:03 am »
You know I exist... you know I hate... You know I detest...

However, somewhere along your path... your preconceptions of me changed... whereas you've somehow been lead to think that I own any patience... at all...

Think again.
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